Community Care and Emotional Regulation Under Capitalism with Sadie Flesher
Q&A with podcaster Sadie Flesher of Clown Hospital and Let's Get Fucked Up
Sadie Flesher is a Pennsylvania-based podcaster, writer, and internet shitposter. She hosts Clown Hospital, a mental health podcast that isn't afraid to admit that capitalism is the problem, as well as co-hosts Let’s Get Fucked Up, a movie podcast discussing the intersections of feminism and mental illness, which are available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow her on Instagram.
I invited Sadie to a Q&A because I’ve been thinking about collective care, community, and emotional regulation under capitalism amidst the fight for Palestinian liberation. Previously, I’ve been a guest on Clown Hospital to discuss connection under capitalism, so we’re continuing the conversation in a more global context here.
How and why are supportive relationships important for combating social isolation under capitalism?
There is radical potential in the power of relationships because the capitalist class constantly separates us. Supportive relationships can make life worth living despite living within a system that is actively trying to kill you and also build the foundation for a better world built on collective care rather than individual ruthlessness.
How does loneliness occur from staying silent or neutral on violence?
I can’t read this question without seeing images of Motaz Azaiza or Bisan Owda pleading the world to do whatever we can to stop the genocide in Palestine. It captures what I consider one of the worst feelings: being in tremendous pain but not enough pain to motivate people to end or lessen that suffering.
As a witness sitting in relative comfort, the silence from so many feels painfully isolating. It alerts something in me when someone can be quiet on the genocide of the Palestinians: if this doesn’t motivate you to act, what will?
Being vocal about what we care about helps us find each other, which can only be combated through collective resistance. It’s exhausting to feel like the only person, or one of a few, who care about something like this within your community. Thankfully, there are also glimmers of hope, like when I see someone post about Palestine for the first time. The movement for Palestinian Liberation is huge, but still not big enough, so it’s inspiring to watch it grow.
What’s the balance between what’s important geopolitically versus what’s going on locally in our communities? How can we sustain community care in movement work?
It’s important for people in the U.S. to care about Palestine because our country supplies money and weaponry to the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF), so we’re theoretically in a position to stop this genocide at one of the sources. We also hear about the relationship between the IOF and U.S. police departments. There’s a lot of work out there talking about how Palestine is the testing ground for tactics and weaponry that are then exported to the rest of the world.
Understanding our struggles as connected is such a key part of sustaining community care. We are all in this struggle together. We live in a world desperate to individualize our problems, but together, we see our problems are larger than our individual experiences.
Can you touch upon the role of emotional self-regulation and community co-regulation in movement work?
The world’s horrors are fucking overwhelming and painful, especially when we feel so powerless. It's important to feel grief, frustration, anger, etc., but it’s complicated because these emotions can be motivating while also being demoralizing and paralyzing. This is where distress tolerance comes in, by making room for the feeling while not becoming completely consumed.
Regulation can be difficult to access, especially for those who are targeted by oppressive systems. If you sleep on the street, frequently go without meals, are targeted by repeated harassment, do exhausting labor for long hours with low pay, experience abuse of any kind, experience chronic pain, experience addiction, and just so many forms of not having your basic needs met, it can be extremely hard to ground yourself.
The most successful intervention would be meeting those needs such as with accessible housing for all, a safe drug supply, a livable wage for all, etc. These aren’t things that are easy to provide for each other, but it’s important to contribute to the well-being of our comrades in the ways that we can, while fighting for a world where survival isn’t so expensive.
Can you touch upon the importance of feeling the feelings, especially in community? Why is it important to express and process our feelings (i.e. using anger to motivate action and crying instead of holding sadness in) in movement spaces?
Capitalism conditions us to think that if we push down all that is uncomfortable, it’ll eventually go away. This isn’t how emotions work. What isn’t released or at least acknowledged remains; it builds until it stops us in our tracks.
Our pain exists no matter how inconvenient it is for others. To heal our wounds we need safety, space, intentionality, and support. We should give people who aren’t ready to feel the feelings some grace since it’s a survival skill. It’s also important to process our hurt when we can so we can best help ourselves and others. When you let yourself feel the pain in this world, it can move you to action, while numbing and choosing ignorance allow the pain to continue. Taking the time to understand your triggers can inform how you support others and how you work within struggle
I try not to view any photos or videos of extreme violence because it triggers my nervous system to shut down, but I listen to people describe what they see in photos and videos. This allows me to bear witness to the violence as well as to feel sadness and rage this violence evokes without breaking down every time. While I refuse to ignore the violence, I’m also unhelpful if I'm fully activated every time extreme violence happens.
When our needs are met, it’s easier to meet the needs of others. Being in tune with your own feelings opens up more possibilities to feel the feelings of others, and for me that is the goal. We live in a world that wants us to deal with all of our problems on our own, but when we make room for the pain of others and recognize that our pain isn’t so different, that our enemies are the same. That is when we can build real collective power.
Some of us feel our emotions differently than others, which might show up as “messy” to others. How can we create space for emotional messiness without judgment?
As a “messy” person, my biggest frustration is the lack of compassion people have for others. If you fail to meet the capitalist ideal version of maturity, where you prevent your pain from interfering with others around you, you’re often mistreated and discarded. It isn't accessible for everyone all the time.
When we’re made uncomfortable by how someone expresses emotions, it's important to step back. I have post traumatic stress disorder and when I'm triggered I sometimes enter fight mode, which can consist of self harm and throwing things at others. This is not socially acceptable, however it’s my body's attempt to keep me safe from danger while activated from trauma. I'm not actively choosing to respond that way. I'm not asking for a free pass; I'm asking for compassion.
It's fair to feel uncomfortable if you witness this, especially if you also experience emotions in big ways, but we need to find ways to make room for all of our complicated emotions. Showing up to actions and meetings high, stimming, showing up late and/or leaving early, publicly crying, etc. can be stigmatized, but these are all ways people survive under capitalism. When we're involved in movement work, we often have interpersonal stakes in these struggles, which can cause complicated emotions—but why fight against capitalism if we can't make room for all the ways people experience and manage the pain it causes?
To learn more about the fight for Palestinian liberation, visit the official Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement website.
TWO OF MY FAVORITES <3
So insightful and compassionate. <3 thanks y'all